February 5, 2019 06:54 PM
Uruguayan President José "Pepe" Mujica believes that the crisis in Venezuela is a dramatic dilemma: "peace or war".
And he confirms that the formula to avoid the path of arms goes through general elections in the country, with strong international monitoring that guarantees the participation of all political movements.
According to Mujica, the United States is prepared to intervene in Venezuela in the context of its geopolitical pulse with China and to prevent the Asian giant from controlling the oil of the South American country.
Although the ex-guerrilla Tupamaro maintains close ties with the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez, he avoids being behind his successor, Nicolás Maduro.
Mujica actually speaks of the "Venezuelan regime" and recognizes that the crisis in that country has damaged the left of Latin America.
It also avoids assessing the intentions of opposition leader Juan Guaidó, who heads the National Assembly and proclaims himself as interim Venezuelan president with the recognition of the US, Canada, several Latin American and European countries.
Trump said that the military option in Venezuela is still on the table Photo: EPA
However, Mujica forfeits a reference to a failed coup attempt by Adolf Hitler in Germany in 1923: "I do not remember governments that have declared themselves (& mldr) .I remember a brewery in Munich where someone shot and He declared himself. # 39;
What follows is a synthesis of the telephone dialogue with the Uruguayan president (2010-1015), before the inaugural meeting of the international contact group on Venezuela held Thursday by the European Union, the member states of the bloc and some Latin American
You stated that there should be general elections in Venezuela. Why?
Because in the worst case it is the least evil. I am convinced, and I have elements that ultimately like the US. he has no choice but to intervene, he will intervene. The central problem for me is to prevent war. Because he knew what the ashes of American policy against Venezuela were in Obama's time: they were betting it would wear out. But the current policy has changed. They have decided to stop the development of China; this must be seen geopolitically in the context. That is why the economic measures with China.
And I know that the people around Trump have scared off the diplomatic equipments of the American career because they take a long-term interventionist position. Therefore, if the great empire does not accept arms crossed that the Venezuelan oil is administered by China, we are faced with a war event.
Mujica believes that elections in Venezuela require strong international monitoring to provide guarantees Photo: Getty
The discussion about legality, legitimacy, etc. Is absolutely secondary to the underlying problem: I think we have no alternative to force the monster to intervene. The monster has the decision to pay the political price to pay and from that point of view has created a whole environment to have a positive opinion.
I do not condemn the intention of the self-appointed president. Yes, I am convinced that with this polarization it is impossible to hold elections in Venezuela if there is no powerful intervention to control the process that an election event means in those circumstances, if the United Nations wash their hands. Instead of making so many statements, so much encroachment and so much threat, guaranteeing an election process where everyone can participate.
Maduro has so far every possibility of this & mldr;
But what do they offer the Venezuelan regime? Surrender and then we will see. And there is still an important character from the American government to predict that they will take him to Guantánamo. So if you want to avoid a war, you have to make alternatives. Because if the thing comes, they will force the war. You can make war because you are convinced, but you can go to war because you have no choice. Nobody will give up like that, put their hands on and put me in jail.
The problem is to see the reality in the background before this cloud of statements that covers the essential, the theme of war. In that part of America we know when the war starts, but you will never know when it ends.
"No one is going to give up like that", says Mujica about the options of Nicolás Maduro Photo: Getty
What would your message be to Maduro to accept to hold general elections?
If I spit an eye, if I recognize the other person and that, I can not even speak. So I think the position of my country is correct because it does not fight for legitimacy. He fights between this dilemma: peace or war. This must be discussed later with the influence of many countries and ultimately a commitment. It is very difficult. But what is the alternative that they leave to the regime today?
Someone can tell you that in Venezuela, for part of the opposition, there has been a war for some time: there is repression, there are political prisoners, there is torture & mldr;
There is a war without shots. But it is not the core of the matter. Because political prisoners, violation of human rights, lack of legal guarantees, there are many countries in the world. US On the other hand, at the moment it is negotiating with the Taliban. There we have Saudi Arabia, et cetera, and so forth. If we break relationships and judge for these problems, poor world: we have to break with half humanity.
It is not essential. Because, what a paradox! US He has endured Cuba in one way or another for almost a century. But it does not support the reality of Venezuela. Why? For me it is proof that the eyes break. But reality is reality. That political will exists, they will bring it to an end and as such we must find an alternative that at least can guarantee peace.
You have shown the willingness to offer a kind of mediation. Have you spoken to someone in particular?
I did not talk to anyone. None of this is legally legitimate because there is brutal interventionism. I do not remember governments that have declared themselves. I was thinking … I remember a brewery in Munich where someone shot himself and shouted.
But it seems to me that legal discussions are a false game. The great power is willing to intervene. I do not want Venezuela to remain in the context of a geopolitical struggle. The minimum is elections with guarantees, so that all political currents remain and can be converted into a dialogue.
Guaidó promised to hold an election as soon as the usurpation of the person accusing Maduro stops. Photo: EPA
But elections can also lead to polarization if no one is willing to admit. Elections between Maduro and Guaidó? Or does it exclude that they are candidates?
No, all political movements. In what is called opposition, there are different levels. There is even a chavism of the opposition. Everyone must express themselves. And coalitions will have to come true or what do I need to know? But in a game of more or less liberal democracy that allows to get rid of the danger of the shots.
Of course, it is possible that a government is very opposed to what Maduro's policy and everything else has been. I do not doubt But it is better that it has election support and there is a democratic game, to become an iron. Because when the pendulum pendulum goes to the other end, what follows is overwhelming.
You speak about "Maduro regime". So is it clear to you at the moment that it is a dictatorship?
I will not go into that, because if I want to negotiate I can not insult. I have to recognize reality. Nor am I going to insult the self-proclaimed president. To find an exit you must have the necessary delicacy.
For example, I understand the attitude of Mexico. Mexico will view the world through the crystals of its history. Mexico has never endorsed any form of interventionism. He lost half of the country that the US had cost 12,000 soldiers. and those things are latent in the culture of a country. That is a bit of reality. It may be that some people do not understand it; They do not know what a war is.
As the crisis in Venezuela deepened, several leftist governments in Latin America lost in the popular mood. Is there a connection? Does the Latin American hurt what is happening in Venezuela?
Yes, certainly yes. There is an old confusion between socializing and nationalizing, leading to bureaucracy, a very old human disease that even Rome suffered. And there is a part of a Latin American and a world that does not learn the lessons of history.
That does not mean that we have to reduce the banners of the struggle for tempering inequalities. Substantial growth is in favor of the transnational economy and the financial world, and the middle class is as frozen and in danger around the world. The battle for equality is more than ever justified; not for absolute equality but for tempering those distances.
I can not believe that Mexico suddenly woke up and voted to the left. No, Mexico voted against what was there. People vote against what they have, because there is a brutal disagreement in the middle class. This makes everything complicated.
A former Foreign Minister of Mexico pointed out that Uruguay is a prisoner of his trade relations with Venezuela and the Secretary-General of the OAS, his former foreign minister, Luis Almagro, suggested that Uruguay clarify these companies & mldr;
That is another shame that gets involved, because in the end those things were sent out in justice and there is an award of justice. And if they question Uruguayan justice, let them talk to the Uruguayan justice. How funny! They ask for clarification on the one hand and do not provide clarification for another.
Uruguay took a position that is neither support nor condemnation. Uruguay is scared by the possibility of war. I could also say: they are free panders from Washington, they have adapted to the promising wave, and so on. But I'm not saying it.
Uruguay is an insignificant country, has 3 million inhabitants. But tomorrow in Uruguay there will be representations of many governments, more than it seems, because that concern exists. And the cause of peace is above other causes.